George Black
User:121.50.43.189 found this.Mugiwara Franky 12:49, September 14, 2009 (UTC)
I don't know how long that link has been broken, but it's not a reliable source anymore. Subrosian 18:41, October 13, 2009 (UTC)
Here it is.George BlackMugiwara Franky 05:01, October 14, 2009 (UTC)
Why is it cut off on OneManga? O.o I'm not going to continue calling out its credibility or anything, but you can only see "Black" on the Manga page on OneManga.com. Subrosian 04:35, October 30, 2009 (UTC)
- The raw copy the scanlators used was probably cut off until that part. When scanning large pictures into computers, the edges sometimes get cut off. This is no big deal in most cases as the main majority of the picture is seem. In this case however, the cut unfortunately took out a vital detail.Mugiwara Franky 09:23, October 30, 2009 (UTC)
- It's pretty common for manga to be a bit cropped at the top and bottom when it first runs in the magazine, then have the whole picture in the volumes. 121.50.43.189 10:19, November 15, 2009 (UTC)
Actually you can't even see what it really says. The first 3 letters are cut off. How do you know the first isn't a C instead of a G? Not to mention it's pure speculation with the second and third letters since they are almost fully cut off. Drunk Samurai 18:22, November 15, 2009 (UTC)
I think the bigger problem is there is no proof that his name is actually George as evidenced by the comment above this section. SeaTerror 04:17, April 28, 2011 (UTC)
What more proof do you need? It's in the picture.DancePowderer Talk 04:28, April 28, 2011 (UTC)
No it isn't. You didn't even read the comment. "The first 3 letters are cut off. How do you know the first isn't a C instead of a G? Not to mention it's pure speculation with the second and third letters since they are almost fully cut off." Also the 4th letter could very well be a lowercase n and not a lowercase r and the rest just got cut off. SeaTerror 04:33, April 28, 2011 (UTC)
You are completely overthinking it. There's speculation with no real hard evidence, and then there's a conclusion based on logic. It looks like George. The three clear letters are rge. The third letter can't really be anything but an o and still make sense by appearance and spelling mechanics. So, we now have **orge Black. Work on faith here.DancePowderer Talk 04:44, April 28, 2011 (UTC)
Spelling mechanics? I guess you have never seen any unusual spellings for fictional characters. Actually the only truly clear letter is the "e" If you look at the second "g" you will notice it could also be an a with the tail cut off even if a g is more likely. There is absolutely no evidence that the 3rd letter can be only an o. SeaTerror 05:03, April 28, 2011 (UTC)
Bumping this discussion. SeaTerror 16:52, May 26, 2011 (UTC)
Pushing it
Why is this even worth having an artical on? Ryuzakiforever 04:07, April 28, 2011 (UTC)
Because its a character in One Piece. SeaTerror 04:17, April 28, 2011 (UTC)
Guys, guys. We already have a discussion for this. I made this one to debate whether to even have the artical. I don't consider this a character. This is a name, no more. If the name ever appears again, go ahead and make an artical about it. If the name is given a face, definately, but until then, we might as well delete it. We don't have an artical on the guy who says "you suck" in episode one. Ryuzakiforever 21:47, April 28, 2011 (UTC)
It's a character. We did the same thing for Roche Tomson, as well as Devon, Shot, and Wolf before they were introduced officially.DancePowderer Talk 22:06, April 28, 2011 (UTC)
I don't agree with Tomson either. They were just written names, not even mentioned. I don't see your point. Ryuzakiforever 23:23, April 28, 2011 (UTC)
Merge
There's pretty much no further information between George and Roche Tomson. Only thing Roche has different is that s/he has some extra trivia. Should we merge them? uknownada Talk 03:09, May 13, 2013 (UTC)
No, because they didn't appear together. Galaxy 9000 03:13, May 13, 2013 (UTC)
Their only mention and history are identical. They never really "appeared" at all, but as far as we know, whenever the series talks about them, they were "together". uknownada Talk 03:15, May 13, 2013 (UTC)
Or we just merge them both into the Impel Down article as named prisoners. Galaxy 9000 03:16, May 13, 2013 (UTC)
Name or Oda Error
I just noticed this. The "L" in Black is actually an uppercase I. Should we move the article or add that to trivia as an error? You can tell it's an uppercase I since the I in Ivankov is uppercase. SeaTerror (talk) 08:53, March 18, 2015 (UTC)
I don't think so, with many fonts the uppercase "i" is graphically the same as the lowercase "l", for example I & l which are i & L.leviathan_89 09:56, 18 March, 2015 (UTC)
I'm sure it's just Oda's mistake. He's not good with latin letters. I think it's absurd to move the page and it's a not-interesting trivia. --Meganoide (talk) 11:08, March 18, 2015 (UTC)
I don't think it's an error. As Levi said it's probably just the font. Aurora[1] | Yes? 16:50, March 18, 2015 (UTC)
That's only the case when it's a lowercase l with an uppercase I. SeaTerror (talk) 18:47, March 18, 2015 (UTC)
Which is this case, what's your point? You said that instead of being "Black" (Black) it's actually "BIack" (BIack), but as you can see even with the font here they look exactly the same. Obviously between the two "Black" is the correct one. leviathan_89 20:34, 18 March, 2015 (UTC)
Actually I'm saying it's a I because if you look above it the I in Ivankov is in the same exact font. I'm saying it's more likely to be an Oda error though. SeaTerror (talk) 20:47, March 18, 2015 (UTC)
But even here the I and l are the same, so not that much strange to be honest. leviathan_89 20:57, 18 March, 2015 (UTC)
What does it look like in the anime? Or the volume release? JustSomeDude... Talk | 21:00, March 18, 2015 (UTC)
That's just how it looks on a computer. When it's handwritten the lowercase l is different form an uppercase I. Volume release is the same. That's how I noticed it since I'm rereading the arc. http://img4.mangasee.co/series/OnePiece/0536-004.png SeaTerror (talk) 21:01, March 18, 2015 (UTC)
Well but the "L" is clearly smaller then the capital "I"... and even if it's "handwritten" technically is not, since he just copied the printed text style, and even handwritten letters have some ambiguities. Leaving graphic similarities aside, saying that's an "i" makes no sense at all, since first of all "Black" is the more realistic case then "Biack" and, if you think about it, why the second letter should be in upper case? It's lower case, therefore it has to be an "L". Even as trivia, it's not more interesting then saying that "l" and "I" looks alike in Helvetica. I can't even call it an error, since as I said, it has to be a lower case "L" hence there is no error to begin with. leviathan_89 22:06, 18 March, 2015 (UTC)
If it was a lowercase l then that's what it would look like. I looks completely different when handwritten. SeaTerror (talk) 22:23, March 18, 2015 (UTC)
But that's not handwriting, it's drawn printed text. And you know it's lowercase because it's not the first letter! If you look closely, the capital letters are even a bit more bold then normal. leviathan_89 22:33, 18 March, 2015 (UTC)
It's uppercase because that's what an uppercase I looks like. I'm just saying it's an error on Oda's part. SeaTerror (talk) 22:41, March 18, 2015 (UTC)
I don't see how this is an "error". Lowercase l often looks identical to uppercase I. Awaikage Talk 01:23, March 19, 2015 (UTC)
"When it's handwritten the lowercase l is different form an uppercase I." SeaTerror (talk) 01:25, March 19, 2015 (UTC)
Well, I don't know about you, but I write them exactly the same. That's how it was taught to me. Also, as Levi said, that's supposed to be printed text in-story. Awaikage Talk 01:34, March 19, 2015 (UTC)
Wasn't taught that way to me. American English vs British English systems possibly. Turns out http://www.ancestry.com/name-origin?surname=biack it's a real last name after all. Not saying that's what Oda was going for but there is an error there since the I in Ivankov is exactly the same. SeaTerror (talk) 02:48, March 19, 2015 (UTC)
There are two possibilities:
- It's a lower case "L", therefore the name is
Black. - It's an upper case "i", therefore the name is
BIack.
Now:
- It's a drawn printed text. Meaning, Oda drew how printed letters looks like, and sometimes the uppercase "i" looks the same as the lower case "L". Take into account that OP is a Japanese manga, even though everybody knows latin letters, it's not their native alphabet.
- In the picture, the capital letters are a bit more bold then normal, the L/I is not, therefore it's not intended as upper-case.
- Since it's the second letter of the word, we know Oda intended to write it as lower case.
- Let's say it's somehow an error, but even then you can read it as an "L" so it's not an error at all, it's just ambiguous.
I understand your point, but you are just over thinking. There is no reason to move the article or even to mention this as trivia. Even as trivia, what are you going to write, that the "L" looks like an "I"? So what? leviathan_89 10:25, 19 March, 2015 (UTC)
If he intended to write it as a lowercase l and instead wrote it as an uppercase I then that is an error. SeaTerror (talk) 11:11, March 19, 2015 (UTC)
But since it's an L then it's not. leviathan_89 11:13, 19 March, 2015 (UTC)
Already proved it isn't a L. SeaTerror (talk) 19:01, March 19, 2015 (UTC)
Already proved it has to be. The fact it looks like a capital I it's just a coincidence. leviathan_89 20:11, 19 March, 2015 (UTC)
No you didn't. You're flat out 100% wrong and would see that if you actually cared to look at the image and see that both letter's look exactly the same. SeaTerror (talk)
Is it really that big of a deal to have an arguement about it, or even worth adding to the page? I would definitely say no. Aurora[1] | Yes? 21:32, March 19, 2015 (UTC)
Yeah the shape is the same, however if you actually cared to look at the image you would see that the upper case letters are both bigger and slightly bold. Our mysterious letter is neither big like the "I" of Ivankov nor bold like it, therefore is not an upper case "i". And if it's not an upper case "i" it's a lower case "L". Get over it. leviathan_89 21:51, 19 March, 2015 (UTC)
Same type of font. You're wrong. If we don't add it to the article or move the page then that's fine too. Just wanted to point out an Oda error. SeaTerror (talk) 22:08, March 19, 2015 (UTC)
Wasn't it "handwritten"? Now it's a font like we said from the beginning? And in which font the same letter has different dimension? None. leviathan_89 23:54, 19 March, 2015 (UTC)
Handwritten font. Either way an l is never supposed to look like an uppercase I. SeaTerror (talk) 00:18, March 20, 2015 (UTC)
I get that, in our world, there isn't really a typed font (not that I know of) where the capital I and lower case L both have identical "lines" at their tops and bottoms. But maybe it exists in the One Piece universe. He's an author, so he can make up random shit and make it official. So I wouldn't call it an error. JapaneseOPfan :: Talk 00:20, March 20, 2015 (UTC)
What does it look like in the anime? This question is still unanswered. JustSomeDude... Talk | 01:41, March 20, 2015 (UTC)
I don't see why that matters since the anime isn't canon. I showed the volume page of it. SeaTerror (talk) 01:58, March 20, 2015 (UTC)
Well, since ST already said he's fine with not mentioning it on the article or anything, let's just close this. Awaikage Talk 20:10, March 20, 2015 (UTC)
There's still evidence for it being an error though. The i in Emporio is lowercase. SeaTerror (talk) 20:23, March 20, 2015 (UTC)
No there isn't. As I demnostrate above, your argument of it being an uppercase "i" doesn't hold. It's not, which means it's a lowercase "L". You are just being stubborn as usual. leviathan_89 16:16, 27 August, 2015 (UTC)
I don't know why you bumped this after so many months especially after I already proved what you said wrong. You calling me stubborn is ironically funny since it's completely reversed. SeaTerror (talk) 21:13, August 27, 2015 (UTC)
I bumped this by mistake because I saw someone editing this section so I thought he added something and the saw your comment. You have a funny idea of proving things: your only argument you gave in this discussion was that the letter looked like and uppercase "i" and you never, as usual, addressed any of my argument which explained why that cannot be the case. leviathan_89 10:10, 28 August, 2015 (UTC)