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Devil Fruit Colorschemes

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I've noticed that a good number of the Devil Fruit infoboxes were changed from their original colors to completely different colors. While they appear decorative and all, they are rather inconsistent with other infoboxes found within the wikia. I mean I notice that the infoboxes in the majority of the Straw Hats pages are yellow and red. Shouldn't it follow that standard instead of a completely different one. No one's complained about it before I understand however, I also understand these edits were made by a new user without prior discussion. It kinda breaks alot of protocol if you allow new users to make major edits like these without at least a proper discussion. 16:19, February 4, 2011 (UTC)

I'll say the same thing I said on your talk page. He said anyone who wanted to could object, and no one did. Also, the Straw Hats are not Devil Fruits. Their info boxes match their generally assosicated color, so why not take that one step further with the Devil Fruits? The varying color schemes make the pages look a lot less boring. Besides, they are already categorized in other places on the page, so why should the color scheme have to be another? They should stay the way they are.DancePowderer 16:38, February 4, 2011 (UTC)

It's true that they are not "boring" with the new colors but they really go against consistency. Take a look at Fencing Style, Black Leg Style, Santoryu, and Clima-Tact. They all have infoboxes that follow the Straw Hat colorscheme. If they follow the colorscheme, then why shouldn't the Straw Hat Devil Fruits such as Hana Hana no Mi follow suit? I mean that seems really inconsistent. Should consistency be downplayed for decorations?
If so, then what is stopping people from coloring say Zoro's infobox to match his colorscheme rather than the Straw Hats for purpose of decoration. I mean green is more Zoro's color and would certainly make his page more decorative. It would be a better choice at the sacrifice of concistency112.198.249.121 16:56, February 4, 2011 (UTC)
Here's kinda proof that it's causing abit of problems.
1.Aldarinor, a user who appears to have been around at least since August last year, made a similar comment about the Devil Fruit infoboxes here. His edit was reverted with the explanation that the community decided it that way however it was without proof.
2.Klobis, a user who appears to have been around at least since september, made a similar edit. However, his edit was reverted by Jinbe.
Now I really don't want to cause problems but is it really okay to favor the edits of a newer user who has only been around since last November. His edits were done in good faith that is certain. But how his edits have been handled is really not following rules. At the very least, it seems rather unfair. 18:01, February 4, 2011 (UTC)

They are suppose to be the same colour so you come to acknolwedge them via the colours. The schemes are suppose to match whats relevent. I sort of feel they should be identical to each other, so we all know thats the devil fruit template. Thats my thoughts anyway and how its been done elsewhere. Also, under no circumstance should something be done purely as personnel perference, or decorations, though this mostly applies to images it could also be argued to be applicable to this circumstance. This would prevent the templates changing colour "because its pwetty". One-Winged Hawk 00:06, February 5, 2011 (UTC)

I was never able to understand that system. It doesn't make sense to me. This way it's easier to associate the fruits individually by color rather than by color category.DancePowderer 06:24, February 5, 2011 (UTC)

No, take the Gura Gura no Mi for example. It originally belonged to Whitebeard, so it should be the color of the Whitebeard Pirates. But now it belongs to Blackbeard, so it would change to the Blackbeard Pirates color scheme. To prevent such a conundrum, let's just use the color scheme that would best represent the power instead of the affiliation. Yatanogarasu 06:34, February 5, 2011 (UTC)

Well, for some fruits, like the Gomu Gomu no Mi, Yomi Yomi no Mi, and Baku Baku no Mi can't really have associative colors, so then it would be best to use colors associated with the fruit. For the ones can have their color association, I agree.DancePowderer 06:41, February 5, 2011 (UTC)

The Gura Gura no Mi at the moment seems to be the only one where group association would be a problem. However, wouldn't it be easily solved the same way character infoboxes are changed when they change alignment. Wasn't Brook's colorscheme before he joined the Straw Hats that of the Rumbar Pirates. His colorscheme changed when he properly joined the Straw Hats. Since the Gura Gura no Mi now belongs to Blackbeard, is there really a confusion in changing it to Blackbeard's color? 07:53, February 5, 2011 (UTC)

Also if the colorschemes are to represent the fruits themselves, wouldn't that pose some problems? Are the colors to be based on the fruit's powers or the actual fruits themselves? If based on powers, that could be hard since some powers don't exactly say color. The Suke Suke no Mi for example is the power of invisibility. The colorscheme for that would have to be yellowish white for both text and background to match the page's color since it's invisibilty. If based on the actual fruits, that would be way harder since only a few fruits have been seen prior to being eaten.

There's also the matter whether certain colors would match the fruits. The Hito Hito no Mi, Model: Daibutsu is colored gold and blue. But shouldn't be gold and a darker yellow. Then there's manga and anime differences. The Zou Zou no Mi makes the sword into a regular colored elephant in the manga while the anime makes it into a white elephant. 08:07, February 5, 2011 (UTC)

First, I'm a bit disappointed that no one (especially the person that brought it up) informed me about this being a problem. Second, I reverted Klobis edit because I did not understand why, since there was no comment or reason given by him. He also stopped reverting the edits after I further explained why I changed them to a different scheme, giving me the impression that all is fine. So much for that.

Now to the actual topic.

I understand that characters share a color scheme, like the straw hats, or the marines. After all they belong to a certain faction. Going with the same color supports that nicely.

However, I believe that the devil fruits should be handled like an own entity, since their users change over time as well. We have the case with the gura gura no mi and might witness a reincarnation of the mera mera no mi too. Blacklegstyle & clima tact really don't compare, since one describes the unique fighting style of Sanji and the other is a unique weapon made by Usopp for Nami.

Devil fruits, on the other hand, are universal. They are a "natural" part of the one piece world, the user just borrows them for the time being (since they reappear after death).

But whatever, lets have a look at the options we have:

  1. Going with the color scheme of the devil fruit user (causes problems if we have 2 characters using the fruit, could also be the reason for major eyecancer - like having a neon scheme paired with a pink-dominated picture...see the old mero mero no mi)
  2. Using more or less neutral color schemes for the 3 types of devil fruits (the easy way out, but offers consistency)
  3. Deciding individually on colors that "match" the fruit. (causes problems with uncertain fruits, like the suke suke no mi)
  4. A healthy mix between matching the fruits power/appearance and the current picture that is used for it. Both scheme and picture compliment each other. A good example would be the Hito Hito: Model Daibutsu, where i used blue and gold because the anime version is used.( means a lot of work and more importantly - talk. But like with certain images: it can be done)

Here is an example of how it would be with option 1.:

And this is how it could be with option 4.:

In any case, please stop blaming other users for my edits,,, thanks.

Jinbe 01:49, February 13, 2011 (UTC)

For the Devil Fruits being universal, that is true as well as to the apparent power transfer. However, its full explanation has yet to be revealed. I mean we don't know yet or for sure if and how Devil Fruits reappear after death. So far there have only been one Devil Fruit that has had two users. And even then it's a bit questionable how Blackbeard did it. For the Mera Mera no Mi, there is a chance of it resurfacing but that's speculative at that this point. Just because a unique situation has presented itself does not mean it will constantly happen again. For all we know, Oda is probably gonna make just one known user for most Devil Fruits for the majority of One Piece. No different new users, no different past users, just the ones he created.
It maybe different but the matter really comes down to being a similar case with characters and associated articles, and which factions they belong to. A number of characters in One Piece tend to change factions at one point of time or another. Changing colors based on their new faction has not been a problem. Why should it be a problem then if a Devil Fruit changed factions when characters changing factions has not been an issue.
For using a universal colorscheme for all Devil Fruit is indeed the easy way out but if that's the case, the same argument can be made to characters as well and that kinda requires a major overhaul and creates more problems.
On deciding individually based on the fruit, it really is a problem.
On mixing things up based on the pic, it's not exactly a simple answer to everything. For the Hito Hito no Mi, Model: Daibutsu, the pic being shown so far is that of Segoku glowing gold amidst a dark blue background. That only works if the pic stays constant. The pic is the best representation of the fruit's powers as of the moment. However it has it's problems. If a pic of Sengoku in full buddha mode standing upright without obstruction were to present itself and be chosen, wouldn't that cause a problem or so. Also there is the problem with manga vs. anime. Certain Devil Fruit powers are really different in each medium. The cases with Enel's lightning color and Lucci's initial anime leopard form are most notable.
All in all, option 1 is still the best option for the matter. It serves two purposes. It makes the article unique looking and presents consistency. Both not sacrificing each other. The middle ground between the colorful and the constant. The whole mixing up thing is nice looking but sacrifices consistency for decor that is not necessarily consistent in itself for sure. 07:48, February 16, 2011 (UTC)
First, it is confirmed that Devil Fruits reappear after death. There is no specific line that states "devil fruits reappear after the users demise", but the various info combined leaves no room for misinterpretation.
Lets see:
  • Sanji knew about the Suke Suke no Mi from a Devil Fruit guide. So, apparently there is a book that catalogs all known fruits. This alone is no confirmation, since Absalom could have contributed the data before Sanji read the book. However, we get the info that there are people in One Piece that try to gather as much input as possible (and did so in the past). Puzzle piece 1.
  • Kaku points out that there is no way to tell which power you get if the fruit is unknown. Spandam admits that certain fruits do have an "Aura" that help identify them, but if the Aura is unknown, consumption is the only way to find out. Puzzle piece 2.
  • Blackbeard knew about the Yami Yami no Mi, and more importantly, its powers. He wanted specifically that fruit. But how could he know its power if the fruits do not reappear? Did he stole the devil fruit abilities from Thatch (like he did with Whitebeard), after he witnessed Thatch using it? Unlikely, since that would heavily contradict the statement that Blackbeard only served under Whitebeard for over 20 years, just to get his hands on the Yami Yami no Mi. He knew about its existence for over 20 years, at least. He was relieved after he finally gazed upon the very fruit he desired for such a long time. But how did he know how the Yami Yami no Mi looks like? After all he was able to tell its kind by just looking at the fruits form. Means: Someone already consumed the Yami Yami no Mi in the past to contribute information about its powers, as well as the basic form of the fruit. Puzzle piece 3.
  • A similar case is the Gomu Gomu no Mi, Shanks knew what power the Gomu Gomu no Mi grants. But how did he know if not someone in the past consumed it already? Both fruits reappeared in their basic form. Puzzle piece 4.
  • No devil fruit power can exist twice at the same time, so that explanation is out of the way too. It basically confirms that Devil Fruits are consumed and reappear later - in order to not conflict the first rule, the old user just has to pass away, by whatever means. How long it takes for the fruit to appear again does not matter in our case, it is just a fact that they reappear again. Puzzle piece 5.

This is all and completely based on flat-out facts, nothing is speculated. It is true that we don't know much at the moment, but enough to justify the autonomy of Devil Fruits. Characters might change factions, characters might pass away sooner or later, but Devil Fruits are like water & sunshine - a basic resource (even if limited to one person at a time).

To option 4, sure it isn't simple and easy, but it is an answer. Pics change and of course the color scheme has to adapt - but this is a wikia, we have to adapt in any case in order to improve the overall quality. Consistency is of course a huge factor and for sure desirable to achieve, but I also get the impression that this word is often used in combination with conservative opinions, especially if real arguments are lacking (speaking in general). "We would have to change other articles as well if we do that!" is one of the standard replies, but really, is anyone here afraid of a bit extra "work"? After all this is people's hobby, if one considers this to be "work", he might be on the wrong site. No offense, just an observation.

And yes, design and appearance play a huge factor, even if some like to downplay its value. Personally I don't like to eat a Big Mac that looks like someone sat on it comfortably for 2 hours, I also don't want to further read an article that burns my eyes with a crazy combo of pink and neon colors. Reading through the comments I'm not the only one who thinks that way and the recent change of the wikias design only backs that up (whoever did that, it looks great...) Jinbe 16:20, February 16, 2011 (UTC)

There is no doubt as to that Devil Fruits reappear again however whether it's after death or something else is still unknown. What we know is a good guess but the exact explanation has yet to be explained. In any case, that matter is not in discussion.
Option 4 is indeed simple and easy but it being an answer doesn't mean it's a good answer. It's true no one likes to have a Big Mac that's been sat on but if all Big Macs looked like that because of procedure based on consensus or something, then that's how they should be. Whether people like it or not depends on individual taste and if they want to change it to their individual taste by altering a single burger that's been given to them then they are free to do so. However if you really don't like the burger, you cannot just go ahead and change the entire recipe. Just because one person says I don't like this burger doesn't mean the recipe has to be changed to suit this one request. I mean other people might like the original sat on recipe for all you know.
Burgers aside, a person just cannot go out of the way and change an article just to suit their own tastes. They may not like the article that is presented to them and are free to edit due to the nature of the wikia, however they can't just do so if it might create a break in procedure. One cannot just go out on a whim and say I want this article to look this way without considering other similar articles. That's just breaking rules. At most, it could be considered vandalism if done poorly.
Doing Option 4 also is a bit too tiring in retrospect. For one thing, you cannot just pick one or two Devil Fruit and say I'll change this to that. You have to do them all, otherwise there won't be any order. You have to look at each pic and at most, have a proper discussion on what colors to be chosen. And this has to be done everytime a new pic is chosen. Does anybody really want to do that for 100+ Devil Fruits? There's enough color variety what with different factions, any further variation just for individual pages is just inconsistent. There's a limit to color variety before it stops being creative and becomes just a mess. 17:10, February 16, 2011 (UTC)

Things are changed constantly, be it pictures, text or whole design schemes. If someone is against something, you express your feelings and reasons. If they are not convincing or lead to a solution, the community talks things over - simple as that. It is not a matter of "I want it my way brah brah brah", its more the lines of "look, I think this would be a nice idea, if you have something against it, feel free to poke me (or us) about it and we find a solution that satisfies everyone, or we vote". Taking the initiative considering pictures and design is necessary - it is the best way to describe your idea. Nothing is decided, nothing is deleted, everything can be reverted - or not if people tend to like it (since no one complained for weeks).

It also doesn't matter if you are new or a veteran. This wikia belongs to everyone, no one "owns" this place (except the wikia team itself, of course). But anyway, since no new arguments are made we should just start a vote, since some already expressed they are in favor of the individual system and some not.Jinbe 17:41, February 16, 2011 (UTC)

Going "I think this would be a nice idea, if you have something against it, feel free to poke me" isn't always a good way to do things. At the very least, it has it's problems especially if what you're doing is drastic. Considering this wikia is big, it would be a matter of time or so before someone finds something to be problematic or against procedure. I mean I can color Chiqicheetah's infobox to something more worthy of the character since it may look to me like a sat on burger and just leave a simple message that says "this looks nice". No, such a big change cannot be done like that. You cannot just change things on the whim and rely later if people think such a big change is okay. If you are really against the consistent design schemes then you should have followed your own advice and express your feelings beforehand. Better to ask if something big is alright to do before rather than have someone complain about it later. 18:03, February 16, 2011 (UTC)

To me it seems like people are more pissed about Jinbe going against procedure than the actual new colors of the DF infoboxes. Ask yourselves, do you care more that the color schemes got changed or that he went against procedure? I'm only saying this because I'm hearing complaints about both at the same time.DancePowderer 18:14, February 16, 2011 (UTC)

It's a matter of both when it comes down to it. The colorschemes got changed to new colors that weren't agreed upon prior. It was done without any discussion by a single user. The new colorschemes also look inconsistent especially when compared to other pages. They're given special treatment because one user thinks they deserve better than consistent order. That's really orderly when you guys are arguing about what words to use and putting a rather strict restriction regardless of what one or two users think. 18:37, February 16, 2011 (UTC)

They're just a bunch of IP addresses. I don't see why it matters if they complain. SeaTerror 18:19, February 16, 2011 (UTC)

So you prefer random inconsistency and broken procedure by a named user rather than an opinion about consistency and order from an anon. In other words, you prefer a mess from a named employee than cleanliness from a complete stranger.
This wikia is making a big deal about having all the words follow a certain flow. This wikia deletes pages like literary techniques on the basis that they are random. So why shouldn't there be a problem made about colorschemes when they break consistency. 18:37, February 16, 2011 (UTC)

After the latest comment I believe the same, Dancepowderer. I was just going to say that this seems more like a personal agenda than anything else, since the topic shifts more and more away from the schemes but to the way it has been done. That said, I welcome all 3 of you to use my talkpage if you have a problem or suggestion, you can also use your wikia accounts (or create one, so we can speak "face to face"). I don't bite and I will be not mad at you, how can I. We don't know each other in real life, and if we would, we could probably get along fairly well (hey, at least we share a hobby!)

@Seaterror You are right, however the comments of all 3 probably took a lot of effort and are not less valid than mine. It is just a matter of respect, while I would prefer to talk on equal terms with a registered user, we can not forget that there is a person sitting behind that IP adress.Jinbe 18:42, February 16, 2011 (UTC)

There is no real agenda against you Jinbe. It's just these edits of yours in this area feel inappropriate with a whole wikia that's consistent in many areas. It's no different than if a user finds a particular article with misinformation. And you did say if anyone has a problem with it, they are free to poke you.
As for registry, sometimes being an anon is better when it comes to certain matters. However I can assure you that even if I am not registered, what I do is for the wikia's benefit. I mean trying to make infoboxes look like they have order is not a crime. 19:01, February 16, 2011 (UTC)

This is what made me wonder. I literally stumbled upon this forum thread, you could have poked me any time, but you did not :(. Thats why it feels like you use me and the edits as a tool to criticize the wikias ways as a whole (and the current admins, indirectly, for allowing it). For being ano, I can't really follow you there. What do you have to fear? No one will cut your head off or so. However, all it does is lowering your credibility. If you don't believe enough in your own arguments to support them with your known account, why should anyone else do?--Jinbe 19:21, February 16, 2011 (UTC)

For not properly talking to you directly, I am sorry. However, you did do something similar. I mean who wouldn't stumble and be surprised to see an inconsistency in a wikia filled with consistency. I am sorry for how this problem was approached.
As for the anon thing, let's just say I would rather be an anon and sacrifice credibility than be a registered user to a site that has its problems. The site here has its share of problems and they're the type of that makes one not feel its worth it to be registered. Regardless of that however, I still care about certain aspects about the site and its about a topic I am a fan of. 19:35, February 16, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, I have problems with the color scheme of the Devil Fruit boxes, as we will run out of colors if we go with the power's theme, but if we go with affiliation, then it would be troublesome, as Mr. 3 was part of Baroque Works, but now a Buggy Pirates, and Brook once a Rumbar Pirate, but now a Straw Hat. But it's better than running out of colors, so why not just go with the current affiliation? Yatanogarasu 04:48, February 19, 2011 (UTC)

There is nothing wrong if we use the current affiliation for characters. My point, however, is that Devil Fruits should be handled like an own entity, with their own color scheme. The way the devil fruit articles are set up already implies that we treat them as independent "things" - the user only plays a small part there (he merely serves as demonstration for the fruits abilities).

That we can prevent eyesores (like in the case of the old Mero Mero no Mi) is just a nice extra. I also don't say we should only go by the fruits powers (if we are at it), but try to compliment the picture that is currently used. In most cases, both can be achieved easily by doing this. In addition to that, the main pictures for the devil fruits are changed rarely, and even if they do, all that changes is mostly the quality - not the associated colors.

And if you worry that we will run out of colors sooner or later:

There are 280 different tones available and we need to choose two for one box. Means we have 280^2 combinations available, or to be precise: 78.400 possible ways to set up the box's color scheme.

78.400 possible ways. In relation to that:

This wika is currently host to 3.411 articles - including the devil fruit pages. Lets assume we quadruple over time, making it 13.644 articles. Even then (assuming every page WOULD have its own scheme) we only used 17,40% of all possible combinations. So much for running out of colors :)

Now to the matter of consistency. It is true that if we change the infoboxes individually, we have to so with every fruit - no problem with that. I just stopped to change the other schemes because this is currently being discussed, it is a matter of respect.

As for the manga pictures, we just have to wait until we see the colors in the anime (or maybe manga). Till this happens, we can use the users scheme (like we do with Vander Decken and the mato mato no Mi currently). Same procedure as with manga pictures, that are replaced with the anime version when available.--Jinbe 20:51, February 19, 2011 (UTC)

While Devil Fruits indeed have their own articles that are separate from their users, that does not mean that their pages should be entirely independent. The users maybe simply "demonstrating" the Devil Fruit powers as you put it, however the users play as much a significant role in defining the the Devil Fruit power. I mean there are lame sounding Devil Fruit powers that are used effectively and there are great sounding Devil Fruit powers that aren't used effectively. Take Kaku's fruit and Bellamy's fruit. Turning into a giraffe sounds lame in a herbivore vs. carnivore sense but it was used quite effectively. Turning your body into springs sounds great but other than jumping around, it wasn't used effectively. When it comes down to it, you can describe a power but without the user, it's effectiveness can only go so far.
For "eyesores" as you say like Hancock's Mero Mero, that is generally not a problem for the colors being applied to the Devil Fruit infobox. That's a problem generally for the colorscheme used for the entire affiliation. If you have a problem with a colorscheme, it would probably be best to discuss a change for the entire affiliation colorscheme rather than just change one or two pages. That way at least, the eyesore problem can be discussed and there would be consistency.
For variety of colors, its true that they are alot of colors and combinations. However, some combinations may not work for some situations. Some may be eyersores. Some maybe mistaken for those belonging to other affiliations. And they are some that people will argue about due to preferences. There's also a fact that even though they're a lot of combinations, that doesn't mean that they're will always be variety between pics. A pic of a yellow character using a power that's green could imply the same color combination with a pic of a green character in a yellow background.
For consistency with every Devil Fruit being individual in color, it can be done but is it really a necessity?
The colors if they match the affiliation, show that they belong to character of a particular affiliation quite easily. If an average reader sees a Devil Fruit infobox that's colored with the Marine colorscheme, they can right away identify that whoever uses this Devil Fruit must be a Marine. It works quite well especially if there are a powers pics where the user is not clearly seen or not clearly identifiable. I mean like the Fuwa Fuwa no Mi for example, the best pics so far are of those without Shiki. Without Shiki's colors, you can't tell that it belongs to the guy.
The colors if they are colored individually, show simply decoration. If an average reader sees a Devil Fruit with colors that are chosen simply for individualism, they are given art but not necessarily given info right away. They would be able to appreciate a small corner of the page for aesthetic values for a brief time but they won't identify right away the necessary information that is pretty much conveyed in most other pages in the wikia. I mean if you were to decorate the Fuwa Fuwa no Mi to a color unique to its own, a reader will be in awe but will have to read the page or go up and down just to find the info of which affiliation uses the Devil Fruit.
Decorating the infoboxes for the reason that one wants to convey that the Devil Fruits are unique in One Piece maybe nice, but it's not that very useful. You can decorate a page with all sorts of stuff but that doesn't mean that all the decor will contribute. 07:16, February 20, 2011 (UTC)

It's called being aesthetically pleasing. It may not contribute informationally, but it makes things look nice, which is important. No one would want to go to the Devil Fruit pages if everything was regular boring-ass green and black, red and black, and yellow and black. I would rather have something be an eyesore than boring to look at. What's wrong with making pages look nice for the sake of making them look nice? I really don't see a problem with giving devil fruit pages their own looks.DancePowderer 07:30, February 20, 2011 (UTC)

Well, fighting styles go with affiliations, so why not follow suit? After all, if we go with unique color schemes based on power style, then it would be troublesome to figure out what color does the best job. Yatanogarasu 07:35, February 20, 2011 (UTC)

That works. I have no problem with that. It would brighten things up a bit. The colors for Black Leg would be obvious, black with yellow lettering. Okama/Newkama Kenpo would be pink (with maybe blue or red lettering). Rokushiki would be sky blue with black lettering (I'm thinking Rankyaku)? Santoryu would be light green with black letters. Anyway, yeah, that's a good idea. It'll take a little while to figure out colors, but that's no problem. We might as well go all the way with the color variations.DancePowderer 07:43, February 20, 2011 (UTC)

That's really going abit too far. If Devil Fruits get individual colors, then other powerups get individual colors. If other powerups get individual colors, then characters might as well get individual colors as their infoboxes also work in the same principles as powerups and Devil Fruit. No as much as it will make things colorful, making things for the sake of pleasing aesthetics can be too inconsistent and useless. Just because there's an option to make the infoboxes whatever color there is, does not mean uniformity has to be thrown out.
As for working out what colors would be appropriate, it's hard enough to figure out colors for each affiliation. Why really bother figuring out colors for each individual page when having a set of uniform colors gets the job done. Besides, there really is an issue of colors when discussing for each individual page. Black and yellow's taken by Kuro I believe. Gay pink is certain for Okama Kenpo I guess. Rokushiki with sky blue and black lettering may suit Rankyaku but does not seem like a colorscheme for a secretive form of martial arts used mostly by assasins. All in all, going down this path sounds more unnecessary than needed. 10:14, February 20, 2011 (UTC)

Lets just do a vote and get it over with. SeaTerror 15:31, February 20, 2011 (UTC)

Agree SeaTerror, we are repeating ourselves and are just stuck here. Lets gather possible options and start a clean vote with a set time limit (maybe a week or so), else this wont go anywhere. I really don't want a situation like with the literary pages, where weeks after people still complain - despite a vote.

These are the options I could filter from this discussion, feel free to add more. Maybe we can start the vote this evening, guided/started by a neutral person (admin or so):

Simply calling for a vote doesn't always suggest a consesus. At the very least, it suggests a number of people like an idea. The reasons behind the votes have has much weight as the votes themselves.
With the case with the literal pages, the reason people are still complaining about it is because people felt that stuff was done unjustifiable. From what I understand, there was no real conseus behind the discussion. Just people counting votes, no real consideration the reasons behind such votes.
For the momment, it really has to be addressed whether it really should be a good idea to give Devil Fruits individual colors. Like Yatanogarasu has stated a point about following suit. If the Devil Fruits were given individual colors then all fighting styles will have to be individual per DancePowderer. And considering what "going all the way" means, characters would have to considered as well. I mean, just simply doing one section of the wikia one way feels half arsed.
Aesthetics is nice but is it worth the trouble for just to make one corner of a page with one pic completely different than other pages, simply because the subject of the page is considered more important than the rest. 17:02, February 20, 2011 (UTC)
Well, we have conflicting opinions and no new arguments are made - a vote is the only way to clear the matter. It may be unfortunate that mine or your arguments were not sufficient enough to clear the topic without - but that is the only way to go. And by the way, if you do "alarm" people on their talk pages, please at least be accurate. The aesthetic aspect is my secondary reason, not the main argument. Thanks.Jinbe 17:55, February 20, 2011 (UTC)
From my understanding, you wish to make the Devil Fruit infoboxes unique as Devil Fruits are an integral part of One Piece. To make infoboxes colorful in order to compliment pics that are being used rather than to identify affiliations like is the norm. That so far seems to be the main argument. It's hard not to see it other than being an aethetic choice if not a personal one. Other than preventing eyesores like Mero Mero, which should be a discussion on Hancock's group colors, I can't interpret anything else other than the want to make something pretty. 18:29, February 20, 2011 (UTC)
This is the reason why we need a vote, since all I do is repeating myself (you do as well). Again, the color scheme being unique is one consequence of treating the devil fruits independently - not the main reason. If we can choose colors that appease the eye in the process - even better. On top of that, If looks are apparently all I care about, why is one of my suggestions to use just 3 colors for each type of devil fruit (logia, paramecia, zoan)? The autonomy of Devil Fruits is my point - if we can improve the looks of the wikia in the process, even better.Jinbe 18:45, February 20, 2011 (UTC)
Besides my alarm was not all the inaccurate. Most of the arguments made for the Devil Fruits being different than their users I can gather have been for aesthetic purposes. 18:36, February 20, 2011 (UTC)

To make my arguements a bit more clearer I shall provide the pros and cons in my opinion.
For user based colorschemes (pros):
  1. Helps indentify easily which group uses the Devil Fruit
  2. Consistency with other pages such as Fighting Style pages
  3. Easy to choose colorschemes that are already listed down without thinking up new ones for every new pic
  4. Easy to choose colorschemes that won't be misidentified with other affiliation colorschemes
For user based colorschemes (cons):
  1. Doesn't make Devil Fruit infoboxes look unique or individual
  2. Doesn't make Devil Fruit infoboxes aesthetic pleasing
  3. May have problems with two or no users
  4. Does not make autonomy of Devil Fruits clear
For indvidual colorschemes (pros):
  1. Makes autonomy of Devil Fruits clear
  2. Makes Devil Fruit infoboxes unique or individual
  3. Makes Devil Fruit infoxes aesthetic pleasing
  4. Solves problems for Devil Fruits with two or no users
For indvidual colorschemes (cons):

  1. Recquires constant discussions for colors in order to match every new pic
  2. Recquires constant brainstorming on colors so they won't be misindentified with certain affiliations
  3. Recquires brainstorming when certain powers don't have colors or when pics don't have colors
  4. Recquires constant monitoring of every page created in order they stay constant on discussed individual colors
  5. No consistency with other pages such as Fighting Style pages
  6. Does not allow easy recognition of affiliations
  7. Asks for other pages like Fighting Styles and Characters to be changed as well
For using just 3 colorschemes (pros):
  1. Makes autonomy of Devil Fruits clear
  2. Consistency
  3. Solves problems for Devil Fruits with two or no users
For using just 3 colorschemes (cons):
  1. Doesn't make Devil Fruit infoboxes look unique or individual
  2. Doesn't make Devil Fruit infoboxes aesthetic pleasing
  3. Over consistency at the expense of looking good
  4. Does not allow easy recognition of affiliations
These are my views on the matter on hand. It's nice to treat the Devil Fruits independently but really they're not that idependent from their users that they should be completely separate. I mean there are characters like Whitebeard and Perona who have been specifically made to go hand in hand with their Devil Fruits. 19:06, February 20, 2011 (UTC)
Right, thanks for your effort. Spot on, however, this section here is heavily biased and exaggerated:
For indvidual colorschemes (cons):
  1. Recquires constant discussions for colors in order to match every new pic
  2. Recquires constant brainstorming on colors so they won't be misindentified with certain affiliations
  3. Recquires brainstorming when certain powers don't have colors or when pics don't have colors
  4. Recquires constant monitoring of every page created in order they stay constant on discussed individual colors
  5. No consistency with other pages such as Fighting Style pages
  6. Does not allow easy recognition of affiliations
  7. Asks for other pages like Fighting Styles and Characters to be changed as well

Point 1 + 2 + 3 are basically the same argument worded differently. It doesn't require constant discussion - pics are usually changed once in a few months, if at all. Point 4 goes for every single article on this wikia - it is our "job" to do that. Point 5: No need to be consistent with fighting styles, since we talk about autonomy of devil fruits here, aren't we?. Point 6: I think whole paragraphs contributed to the users (as example) is enough affiliation. Point 7 is identical to point 5.

But I'm glad we have made our points clear - now we can initiate the vote.Jinbe 19:30, February 20, 2011 (UTC)

It does invoke constant discussions as some situations would really recquire discussions. If you want to make Devil Fruits completely automous, you will need to make them different from whatever colorscheme is present in the wikia. If at least one colorscheme is almost identical to a certain group affiliation, then it being colored for automonomy fails as people will mistake the colors. Even colorschemes used for Devil Fruits that don't have clear colors lose the purpose if they follow the user's colorscheme.
Constant monitoring is probably gonna be more needed in this situation, especially when you have other pages that follow an affiliation setup. There's also the fact that not everyone would agree
The Fighting Style pages maybe not as important as Devil Fruits in the view of some. However, they serve the same function.
  1. Both detail powers of a character
  2. Both list down techniques
  3. Both provide a page that would otherwise clutter the main one
They are basically the same kind of pages. People see them that way as expressed even by Yatanogarasu above.
Whole paragraphs can tell affiliation, however it won't work for quick reference. If the infoboxes are colored by affiliation, people can get right away that the Devil Fruit is used by a character from a certain group. This works quite well if the pics for the Devil Fruit don't show the user or if the paragraphs used are too long for quick reference.
Having Devil Fruit infoboxes completely different from the rest really does ask the other pages to be changed as well. As evidenced by the discussion between Yatanogarasu and DancePowderer, people think that if the Devil Fruit pages get special treatment, then other similar pages should get special treatment as well. I mean that's what consistency can be interpreted by most when you use the same kind of infobox in most pages.
Devil Fruits are special in One Piece but that really does not mean they should get special treatment over the rest. Giving them multicolors breaks consistency for the sake of aesthetics. Likewise giving them just 3 colors breaks freedom of the color for the sake of consistency. The only real compromise that serves both purposes would be to use affiliation colors. Besides the Devil Fruits are already autonomous enough what with having their own individual pages. Making a corner of a page different from the rest just to point out an already autonomous status is a bit too redundant. 04:59, February 21, 2011 (UTC)

I just want to see one Paramecia DF and go onto another and see the colours are the same to signify this is the "DF scheme" really. The factions colourscheme is **** as far as I'm concerned because it permently ties down that DF and changes if someone else gets it at a later date. Its best to choose oene scheme, throw beauty out the door (wikias are not beauty parlours) and stick with it. Even if its butt-ugly. One-Winged Hawk 11:26, February 21, 2011 (UTC)

When are we starting the poll ? Roranoa zoro {^_*} 12:03, February 21, 2011 (UTC)

I asked Dancepowderer to start and monitor the poll, since he has proven to be fair and objective in the previous admin voting. I hope to hear from him today, I guess he was busy with the long chapter summaries yesterday.Jinbe 13:34, February 21, 2011 (UTC)

Voting options - brainstorming

  1. Going with the color scheme of the devil fruit user
  2. Using more or less neutral color schemes for the 3 types of devil fruits
  3. Deciding individually on colors that "match" the fruit.
  4. A healthy mix between matching the fruits power/appearance and the current picture that is used for it. Both scheme and picture compliment each other.

Devil Fruit Color Scheme Voting

The voting has now ended. Please do not vote anymore.

1. Matching with Users' Scheme

Clarification: Devil Fruit infobox colors match with those of that current user's infobox.

2. One Scheme For Each Type

Clarification: Paramecias share one color scheme, Zoans share one color scheme, and Logias share one color scheme.

3. Each Has it's Own Scheme

Clarification: Each Devil Fruit will have it's own unique color scheme, separate from Users or otherwise.

4. Match Between

Clarification: Using colors that match the currently used images for the Devil Fruits.

It is now midnight March 1st, 2011 (EST), or in accordance to Wikia time 5am March 1st (UTC). As the vote has ended 9-9 between "One Scheme For Each Type" and "Match Between", we will now be going into overtime. If you want to change your vote, or still haven't voted yet, now's you're chance! You have until Saturday, March 5th.  YazzyDream  Talk  Admin    05:03,3/1/2011  05:03, March 1, 2011 (UTC)

It is now around midday of March 5th (EST), or in accordance to the Wikia, 4pm March 5th (UTC), and the voting has officially ended with an outcome of (1;11;0;12) in order of number. This makes "4. Match Between" the winner with the tiebreaker of 1 vote between option 2, and any votes from now and on will be erased immediately. Thank you for your cooperation! JapaneseOPfan :: Talk 16:00, March 5, 2011 (UTC)

Discussion II

Thanks a lot for monitoring and starting the vote YazzyDream, also great job on making it public via the SiteNews, it is a great tool.

Right, the thread concerning the individual schemes will follow soon, after I finished altering the remaining Devil Fruit boxes. The new topic will be the foundation for further discussion, criticism, ideas and maybe even praise. I will personally invite everyone that participated in this discussion once the work is done, or poke Yazzy to make use of the fantastic SiteNews section.

Anyway, thanks for participating in the discussion and poll! Jinbe  Talk  16:39, March 5, 2011 (UTC)

Criticism 1: A majority of votes in a wikia discussion may say something of what people want but not necessarily mean the idea will automatically be good, just accepted.
Criticism 2: Most votes apparently were given without addressing the issue. Though what was said in the previous discussion showed no other argument could be made, some input from others on the matter would've been nice. Some of the voters who didn't say anything may have arguments that would've help add to discussion.
Criticism 3: Despite current vote, it maybe unwise for a single member to make all the Devil Fruit infoboxes unique by themselves right away without discussion. Doing so maybe seen as being favoritism to one person's preferences rather than the community's preference. All Devil Fruits or at least the majority of them should have discussions prior color change. That way there can be good faith and proper understanding. 17:02, March 5, 2011 (UTC)

Cool story, bro. SeaTerror 17:16, March 5, 2011 (UTC)

If that was an insult to my criticisms, especially one with bad faith, please SHUT UP SeaTerror. You're already making a problems at Talk:Bonney Pirates‎‎ with your speculation racket. This discussion doesn't need your unhelpful and insultful input. An anon has as much right to criticize a decision even if he has little to no power. 17:22, March 5, 2011 (UTC)

The point is the discussion is already over. Jinbe was already working on them before the IPs complained. He was doing just fine and will still do a fine job. SeaTerror 17:24, March 5, 2011 (UTC)

Just because the votes say something doesn't mean the discussion is over. At the very least it means it should be continued so a problem similar to what happened won't happen again and people will understand. There is no doubt that what Jinbe has done has been fine, but a little consideration in the form of discussions wouldn't hurt. At most it would be fair to everyone, so that everyone can state their choice of colors for each Devil Fruit instead of one person choosing them without consulting the community. 17:31, March 5, 2011 (UTC)
Maybe you overlooked my last comment:
Right, the thread concerning the individual schemes will follow soon, after I finished altering the remaining Devil Fruit boxes. The new topic will be the foundation for further discussion, criticism, ideas and maybe even praise. I will personally invite everyone that participated in this discussion once the work is done, or poke Yazzy to make use of the fantastic SiteNews section.

Anyway, thanks for participating in the discussion and poll!Jinbe Talk 16:39, March 5, 2011 (UTC)

I have understood the bolded point by you Jinbe which is why I have given my criticisms on the matter. Criticism #3 in fact is more of a safety measure I am requesting as choosing some colors without prior discussion may really irk some people. 17:40, March 5, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, great work in selecting the specific colors for each power. As for the Gura Gura no Mi, I think we should have blue and brown, blue as in seaquakes, brown as in earthquakes. Aldarinor and others are having a conflict as it is, so we should talk it out here. Yatanogarasu 16:35, March 9, 2011 (UTC)

Thanks Yatanogarasu.

Could you give me a code for your suggestion? Then I will add it to the suggestions thread, in case we have to do a quick vote by the end of the week :) Jinbe  Talk  16:43, March 9, 2011 (UTC)

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